Everything You've Been Told About Going Viral Is Wrong | Justin Ho

What if everything you've been told about going viral is completely wrong? In this episode of the Success Formula Podcast, host Sean sits down with Justin Ho, known online as The Mindset Guy, a creator who has personally generated over a billion views, helped clients surpass two billion more, and built a combined following of 23 million across platforms. Justin is also IShow Speed's high school classmate, and his journey from aspiring NBA player to one of the most in-demand social media strategists in the game is nothing short of extraordinary.


Justin breaks down why the hook is only one piece of a much larger puzzle, how the purple cow theory can take a single video concept from 50,000 views to 19 million overnight, and why the most viral content in 2025 is raw, real, and completely unscripted. He also reveals the $70,000 mistake that forced him to launch his marketing agency, the exact Instagram DM funnel he used to land high-ticket clients at $8,000 to $15,000 a month, and why personal brand will always outperform niche content in the long run.


Whether you are a business owner trying to figure out what to post, a creator stuck under 10,000 followers, or an entrepreneur who knows their content should be performing better, this episode will completely shift the way you think about social media growth.


Topics covered include the three-part hook formula, how to use doom scrolling as a research strategy, when to copy competitors and when to create something entirely new, why storytelling converts better than any editing trick, and how to structure content as a business owner with a small or local brand.

Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/themindsetguyy/
Kick Stream- https://kick.com/themindsetguy

Tune in every Tuesday at 10 AM for another inspiring success story, along with the proven formula to help you achieve your own goals. Don't miss out on the insights that could change your life!

Buzzsprout- https://successformulapodcast.buzzsprout.com/
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7aRe06pXIq6yq8GQf62NBM
Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/1393b77c-626a-4a53-bdd5-43ce3b1aa15b/success-formula-podcast
Apple Podcast- https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/success-formula-podcast/id1748704615

Our Social Media:
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OfficialSuccessFormula
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialsuccessformula/
Twitter: https://x.com/_SuccessFormula/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@officialsuccessformula

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You gotta be transgendered to go viral.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This is iShow Speed's high school classmate, aka Justin Ho. And in today's episode, we're gonna break down exactly what it takes to go viral.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Most people will tell you that you need to have the best hook, you need to have the best grip, but that's BS.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

How to build a personal brand.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

You can get to like a million followers without reinventing the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

And what it was like growing up before all the social media fame.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Yeah, there was actually just one incident I remember Kim Kardashian would bring over like random guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Only on the Success Formula podcast. So everything I always talk about entrepreneurship, identity, uh financial literacy, execution, everything. The school system really doesn't teach you any of it, but you figured it out early on. Yes. And you figured out the path that you wanted to go. Uh it's pretty incredible how how many b how many views have you had?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

I think I've well, at least for myself, I've generated like over a billion myself. And then for my clients, it's probably over like two billion or something and 23 million followers combined.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

So tell us your story. Tell us how you started making content. Tell us how you grew up. Like how did you even get to that point?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah. So I remember when I was a senior, no, actually, even before that, junior in high school, my my dream was to be an NBA player. And obviously that didn't work out. Here we are right now. I'm kidding. Um, but pretty much, yeah, I wanted to be an NBA player and then the pandemic hit, right? And during that time, I was thinking to myself, okay, well, it's either like I try to keep going with basketball or I try to figure something out that like is I guess more up in my alley, I thought. And, you know, it's not like I guess basketball wouldn't work out because I actually had a like offer to like walk on to a school. But like long term, I kind of saw myself not doing that. I just feel like, you know, it's it's really competitive, basketball, right? I mean, everything's competitive in life, but like I was like thinking, I mean, NBA, like five foot eleven Asian guy, like it's kind of difficult, right? So I was like, all right, let me think of something else. But at the time, I had like a basketball coach that was really motivational, and uh he would always make these videos on the internet of like his Instagram stories, literally of order of encouragement every single day, like some short message. And I always thought, like, that's really cool. Like I wanted to try that. So, and it's actually funny, I used to have like a really weak mindset, so I would do this to practice not only strengthening my mindset, but just doing it just because I liked it. And I did it every single day when I was about to be a senior in high school in the summer, and sooner than later, like literally all of my peers started to find out, and people started to like it. And I was thinking to myself, okay, maybe this is kind of a joke. Like, I gotta know if it's like for real, but they really did like it. And in fact, I made a whole club at the school called the Mindset Club because of this.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

And that's why all your social medias are like the mindset guy and the mindset.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah, actually, so even before that, so I used to just have my like name, Justin Ho as my name or my uh username and all that sort of stuff. And then the mindset club, that was like one big thing that kind of made me shift towards making my name the mindset guy. But then it was actually after high school when I went to college, my first year. I actually thought I was not gonna do this anymore. But I started doing it again just because I wanted to. And literally, I guess in college, there was like a Snapchat story for like your specific college, so everybody in your grade can see it. Okay. And pretty much like I would post on there, and people like the first week I saw in my life, like they would come up to me and be like, Oh, are you that mindset guy? Are you like that motivation guy? And pretty much, like, that's what kind of made me realize oh, I should just call myself this instead. So I changed my whole username to the mindset guy and the the motivation or whatever it was, right? And then pretty much I started posting every single day on like TikTok, Instagram, and yeah, like a couple years later, here we are now. I had a couple million followers.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

So a lot of people don't think you can improve your mindset, and it's not something that you can build and you're born that way. 100%. And then you definitely prove that wrong, right? Yeah, for sure. Well, most Asian families already have like a plan for their kid. Most ones I know, like one of my best friends, yeah, doctor. Yeah, it's like this is the path you're gonna take. There is no other path. No, yeah. What how did you like how was that growing up? And when you said, Hey, look, I'm just gonna make content and I'm not gonna go to college.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Honestly, so at first, like my dad like wanted me to be a doctor. I don't know. It wasn't even my dad, it was my mom. Yeah, she wants me to be a doctor, especially my grandparents. Of course. Yeah, and I was kind of thinking to myself, like, I'm not gonna ever do this. And in fact, actually, I had a pretty chill Asian dad, and so he'd be like, You don't need to do that. Like, honestly, I don't see you doing that. So, like, he was very supportive. I mean, both my parents are very supportive. What do you do? What did they do for work? So my dad was a doctor. Yeah, that's kind of why I can think my mom was like, You gotta be a doctor. But my mom, she did PR, like she does marketing, yeah. So she had her own agency and everything, and so crazy, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Because you would think it would be the opposite. Your mom would have tried to do what your dad did, which is like, hey, I don't really see you being a doctor.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Because she's the PR, she's the marketing, she's like no, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:46

And I think it's kind of funny also because my dad, like, he well, the only thing he wanted me to do was stay in school. Um, and so like I was staying in school for like up till junior year of college. And so junior year of college, that's when I also started making my own my marketing agency, and like it did pretty well to the point where I was like, Hey, I'm gonna take a break, and then yeah, the break just ended up be dropping out. So, like, yeah, they kind of accepted it, but they were happy about it at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Did you were you telling them numbers like, hey, this is what I'm doing? I'm a marketing agency.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Oh, yeah. I mean, my dad, like, he helps me manage my finances, and so like he's been he sees everything coming in, and so he's like, Holy shit, like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Like, yeah, and I'm like, Well, I'm I don't think people think it's possible that if you don't like especially you know, you can't really blame like the in the generation before us, or you know, my parents, um, your parents, uh, even my age is like, hey, that used to be the path, and they don't even know another way. Right. And so they think everything else just doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And so it's like you have to go to school, you have to get good grades, and then you have to graduate and you have to get a stable job.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

And it's like farther from the truth. I mean, I don't know how much your dad was making as a doctor, but you were probably passing him up pretty quick, huh?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Probably at his age for sure. Yeah, I mean, I I have to say, like, he is really successful. Also, so like I do look up to him as like a father and a mentor, but like of course, yeah, definitely. I like my age, I was probably lapping him like numbers. I mean, he was just studying and like looking at the books, so it's like, you know, trying to be a doctor. But I mean, he did become a doctor.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

So did they ever think that you were making a mistake by dropping out of school?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

I think my my mom always would be like, You should ask your dad about that. Because she's like, Okay, it's kind of funny, like, kind of like I was saying earlier. My mom was more like, hey, career, like, I guess like career focused, like you need to do this, right? Go be a doctor. My dad was the opposite, but then my dad for school would be like, you need to go to school. And my mom was like, Well, like, it's up to your dad. So, like, pretty much when I did bring up this to bring this up to my mom, like, she was kind of like, Yeah, it's up to your dad. And then my dad was like, you know, it's your life, like, whatever you want to do. And then I was like, All right, fuck it. Well, if it's my life, I'm gonna do it. Then, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

That's pretty encouraging. That's what I would do to my I mean, that's how I picture myself with my son is I'm gonna give him all the tools he needs to be successful. Right, right, right. I don't know what path he's gonna take. Um he might be entrepreneur, but I think I'll give him all the tools to be successful, and I'll whatever he decides to end up doing, it's like I'm gonna like if that's what you want to do, like go for it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah, I know, and I'm also very fortunate that like at a young age, like I discovered a lot of YouTube like side hustles and everything. Because I think if I hadn't, I wouldn't have like done this to this day. And like the fact that I did look at these videos, like it made me like I don't know. I think I've always been like entrepreneur driven, like from the start, but like that, like when I was in college, especially really made me like, okay, like I want to make some money. Like, how do I do this? And I knew like because I never had a job in my life, so like I was like thinking also like I would never want to go work the job, but like that's when I just started to really like put myself in those shoes of an entrepreneur and like start making my own business.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah, the traditional path doesn't teach you anything about making money. And so yeah, most people I don't think they know they're entrepreneurial, but most people just don't. That's why they're so lost when they're 18 because they graduate and it's like, well, what do I do now? Like I don't know anything about anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah, you'd be surprised also, like, even when I was in college, like there are so many kids that I would like ask, what are you gonna do after college? And it's either like they don't even know or like they're gonna do something, but it's like they're not doing well right now for it, you know. And it's like they don't even know like even half the sign houses I mentioned. It's kind of it's it's kind of crazy. Like 90% of the college students like have zero clue about any kind of like online money making thing or you know, a side house.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Which is crazy, even in today's world, right? Like is because it is more prevalent. Like whenever I went to school, it was like none. Yeah, it's like there was no YouTube. Yeah, and it was just coming out. I don't care, I can't even remember, but I don't think it was out yet.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, even like at my school, there was like an entrepreneur club, and like the entrepreneur club, like or entrepreneur class, sorry. And like I'm like, why are we like learning this? Like, we shouldn't we be doing this? And like it's funny because I went to Cowboy San Luis Obispo, and like the school, uh, I think the the motto is learn by doing. And you were never doing it yeah, I'm like, I'm not learning by doing, I'm learning I'm literally learning by looking at the screen. Like, I'm like that's that's when I was like gonna drop out, but like, yeah, I mean now I now it's funny. I go back to the entrepreneur club and like talk about like all the stuff I did and everything. You think college is a scam? I I think it it depends. Like, I think the only thing I would see beneficial with it, at least nowadays, is the people you can like meet for just friendships. Because like you know, friendships are very important, I think. And those friends that were gonna are gonna be with you from the start that can help you like support your career. Like, I think those people are very important in your life. But other than like if you're trying to, I guess, unless you want to be like a doctor or like a lawyer, I guess you kind of have to go to school. But if you don't, then yeah, I don't I think it's BS. Like especially nowadays, it's like people are like 15-year-old kids are making more than like a whole teacher's salary, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, that and they don't have to spend four years of their life and a bunch of money to do it, right? No, literally. For any kid out there who has strict parents that are going through the same thing, because I actually have been on coaching calls with just other people I know with their students, and if they're younger students, a lot of them are struggling with that exact same thing. It's like my parents want me to go to college, and if I drop out, they're like disowning me. Right. What what would you recommend for those kids to do to try to convince their parents or maybe see have their parents like see another side of it?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I would say, so like when it comes to dropping out, like I think at least this is like how I see it. Instead of just like dropping out, like I think you should try to do it on your like own, like maybe while you're in school first. Because like if you have proof, like the proof is gonna sell itself, right, to your parents, especially. So it's like I would tell like because actually a lot of like younger guys have like asked me, like, I mean, obviously you're way more successful than me, but like they would ask me, like, hey, what is your advice to dropping out? And I would just tell them, like, well, have you like made any money yet? And they're like, Well, nothing. And I'm like, Okay, well, like, that's gonna be harder for you to convince, right? Yeah, um, so like I would always tell them, like, do something first, and then like when you start to make a lot of money, because I know for a fact if I didn't, there, yeah, there's just no way my dad would even let me drop out. Like, it'd be impossible to convince him.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, so you gotta convince him by using proof.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Oh, yeah, for sure. I proof, and like if you don't want to take that path, I would just say, you gotta get really damn good at selling then. I mean, you gotta say something to convince them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

That that's the best skill you can have, anyways, in life is being able to sell something. 100% sales. Whether sell yourself or sell an idea or sell a product, like it's no hundred percent. Definitely the best skill that you can have. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So break the whole journey down. So from from you start making content and you're eventually at millions of followers, but break it down. You started it, you were going to college, you're making videos, people started knowing you as the mindset guy. What happens after that? Like, what's the first thing you did?

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah, so like this is basically when I started to make content, right? Myself. Okay, so when I started making content, um like I was I remember like I started with like these interviews on the street, and like I'm I noticed like the format was really good at the time, especially. And um, I kept doing it for like one month, two months, three months, and then the third month, I remember like I had like because I always think, okay, so this is another thing with content. Mr. Beast has said this a lot. You have to think of like the purple cow, which is like essentially like a theory where if you're if you're driving down a road and you see like all these cows, right? And you see one purple cow, you're gonna be like, what the heck is that? Right. And so my mindset is always taking multiple viral concepts and seeing how can I make a viral content or you know, video with all these concepts combined, right? I'll give you another example before I even go into this. Like the breastkill video you showed me, right? So I actually thought of doing the exact same thing, except doing it where it's in an IRL campus, like a college campus, and anybody in the crowd can join in whenever and kind of make it interactive like that. And I thought like that would be like super interesting because I've never seen somebody like usually they're all in these studios, right? But I thought, oh, if somebody does it outside, it's a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, whenever you're whenever you're scrolling, it's like you're gonna stop on that. Yeah, because you're like, hey, what's the difference?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, yeah, exactly, right? And it's it's it's as little as the background environment or the change that makes people like, oh, this looks different or unique, right? Even like you can host a dating show, not in the studio, but outside, right? And so, like, when I got really going on social media, I remember at the time, like it wasn't with like a business content, but it was more of like a, you know, like those glow up, glow down concepts. It's like asking people like or asking strangers, like, hey, do you think this person had a glow up from like their childhood photo? And then like they would show like an after photo or something like that. So I saw that kind of trend happening on TikTok, and I saw a lot of people doing these dating shows on YouTube, like in a studio. And I thought, okay, how do why not I combine these two and make it instead of in the studio, though, on the street in like a 30-second, 20-second video? And I remember the first video, it's funny, and this is proof that you should never stop making good content or never stop giving up on an idea. The first video I did for that, I think it got like 50,000 views, and I was like, okay, it's still pretty good, right? At the time, I think at the time though, I had like a hundred or something, thousand followers. So I was like, okay, like we could do better. So the second time we got 20,000, and I was like, oh dang, this is not good, right? But something told me just do it one more time, and the third time got 19 million views, and I was like, oh my god, it went on Barstal Sports even. It was so viral. Was it on TikTok? Yeah, it was on TikTok, and people were like Well, then everywhere after that. Oh, yeah. Then after that, like I posted another one. I swear, I think I was like literally Lin Sanity during that period. Like I was averaging like a million views per video, and I was growing like a couple hundred thousand followers, like in the like next or in like the span of two to three months, and it was just insane to me the growth, right? So that's kind of how I got really going with everything.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Did you continue with that same format or did you start like trying to do that?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

It still goes viral. Like it's pretty, it's pretty crazy. To this day, like if I posted it on my account, which I did recently, like the last one got like seven million views, but like that one, the reason why I stopped doing it is because I didn't want to be known also for one thing. This is also where like a lot of business owners make mistakes. It's like a lot of business owners, I feel like they'll like stay within their niche, but like I'm always a believer of like talk about your life, talk about your business, talk about everything, and you will become the niche eventually. And people will just start to like you for who you are.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

The personal brand side of it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Because your personal brand means like your personal brand, like it's literally your life, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

You're trying to build trust with the person. So if you're only talking about your roofing company or whatever it is, it's like, well, how how many interested people can you get in that? And even if they are listening to you talk about it, not saying it sounds more like an ad, but when you talk about your personal life or your failures or whatever, the people are like, Man, I kind of trust that guy. Like, I would yeah, I'd use him to put on my roof or something like that. Like, I do see what you're saying because I've noticed it with myself, like on the trust building side, right? Um, you know, you get a lot of messages once you start doing that type of content, right? Especially if you're like doing on your stories every day, like people are always reaching out. It's like, oh, you know what? That happened to me, or that you know, it's where it's not just like some talking head where it's like an ad.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

No, 100%. And another thing I was gonna mention is like, yeah, like I think even when I posted content that's not like on my business page, that's not relevant to like how to go viral or whatever it is. Like if it was just like a random video about me eating food or like I I literally had a client before that like was on my live stream for like my business account. And like I think at one point in the live stream, like I just stopped saying anything and I was just eating my food. And like literally, like that like simple segment of me eating my food made the person like trust me more because she saw me as more like a oh, he's just like a normal guy, you know, it's not like he's just business, business, business all the time. Like, even a lot of the people that have worked with me, I would always ask them like at least at the cent at the sales call at the end of it, like what made you, yeah. Yeah, and they'd always be like, Oh, it's it's I it was this video that had nothing to do with content. And it's like, oh wow, like that just tells me like people buy out people they like and trust, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

And it's almost everything together, yeah. Because like if you didn't have all this other stuff, right? Um, that video would have had no relevance either. Yeah, the streaming thing still baffles me a little bit, and I guess I didn't grow up with that, and so like when I watch it, it's like, man, it's kind of annoying. Like to sit there and watch somebody just like just say whatever, just left and right, and like nothing making any sense. Like again, I didn't grow up with it, so I'm not gonna say uh it's some of the most popular people in the world now, so apparently people really like it. Yeah, is it like maybe because it's the ultimate trust building thing to where you're just sitting there watching somebody's real life, kind of like what do you think it is? Like, why is streaming so popular now?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

I think it's popular now because okay, so like Mr. Beast, when he was on the rise, like he really like changed the way I think people see content in like redor in terms of like attention span. Like back in the day in like YouTube 2016, like you could get away with like posting a really raw video with like really subtle editing and like people would still watch it. But like, because now number one, there's TikTok and there's all these short form platforms and Mr. B's coming in. Like, he really made it where it's like everything is so overstimulated that it's like now when you see that video back in 2016, you're like, oh, I can't even watch this for like more than 10 minutes, or not even 10 minutes, a minute. Yeah, literally, right? And so I think the reason why live streaming got so popular all of a sudden is because um, like those creators, iShow Speed, you know, the Kai Sinat, those huge streamers, like live streaming is raw and real. Like, there's no like oh editing and like stimulated whatever, right? It's like just raw reactions, and I think that's what also prompted a lot of creators to come back to like the 2016 of like what content was like back then, and that's why I think it's so on the rise, especially just because like now, like everybody's doing it, like it's a whole brand new thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Well, that, and then you have the rise of AI, which is gonna be like crazy videos, right? Yeah, and then the stuff that is more real, I think is gonna come back even more because nobody's gonna know what's real or fake on an AI video, right? So to know that something's real, more live streaming, more raw, like more just like talking to the camera, and it probably is gonna make an even bigger comeback. So just because of the AI stuff, like people are gonna get it's like, how do you how do you know at some point, like five years from now, how you gonna know what's a real person and not a real person? Like, no, yeah, unless it's either live or unless it's either just like ultra unedited. Remember when well, when YouTube first started taking off when I was younger, it was like the vlog. Like that was like the original thing where it's like vlogging, no editing, no nothing.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think like that's why like it's so popular to this day. Another thing I was gonna mention actually is like so there's this small creator that posted a video on Mr. Beast, and the title was Mr. Beast is boring now. And funny enough, Mr. Beast commented on that video and he said, like, yeah, I agree. I I think I've been thinking my videos have been getting boring, repetitive. And he actually asked that creator to reach out to him because of like the advice he gave in that video, and I think that that proves to show that like Mr. Beast like himself knows that like content's changing. Like, even Mr. Beast, like I mean, he gets like tens of millions of views though, right? But like in a day, he'd only get like before in a day, he'd probably get like close to 100 million. Now he only gets like 20 million, which is like a huge drop. Big deal, big deal, and like that's a lot for us, right? Especially if he has half a billion followers or something like that across exactly, like, which is like, oh my gosh, like the fact that he's dropping numbers is like tells you, like, yeah, it's like it's getting this, it's getting old that mystery be sufficient of content, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, I do. I I kind of agree with you. I think the raw like that's the only way people are gonna know something is real at some point, or whether like a community-based thing or uh a live stream, which I still don't get because it's not entertaining to me, but I it I I mean, I know it's working. I mean, you have some of the most popular people in the world that are streamers now.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, and you know what I also I've noticed, like even just testing my own content is like, and maybe this is something you could test with yours, is like when I used to have videos that were like way more hyper-edited, like Mr. B style, like I would get a lot of younger people. Okay, and like people that like were just watching the video because of the editing. But I noticed when I switched it completely to like a selfie style on the iPhone, there was a lot more older people, and that resonated with the message as well. Because I think for the older demographic, like they don't want this overstimulation of like edits and everything on the video. Yeah, like they're just used, like they just want to see, like, especially like high-level business owners like yourself, they want to know, okay, what's the message this video? Like, how's this gonna help me? And is this gonna be valuable to me? And like if you can hit those points without having to be like and rely off the editing, you're gonna be gold because then now everybody's gonna listen to you and like you'll have like a really strong little following.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah, yeah. I I do know that is like not all view just because you're getting a lot of views on something doesn't mean yeah, it's gonna convert to where people are actually gonna see value from it. They might not ever even remember you if it's like some huge viral video, but it's just kind of like short entertainment stuff, yeah, they might not even ever remember who I am.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, no, exactly. That's why even like for clipping, like if there's clips that like are super, super edited, like they're only gonna like watch it or for for the editing. But like if it's more like raw, yeah, it might not go as viral, but like it will eventually build up and people will be like, Oh, I remember Sean, like he was a cool dude, like I want to watch him now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Hey everyone, real quick, I just want to let you know this podcast is 100% independent. No ads, no sponsors, just real. If you're finding value in whatever we're doing here, the biggest help that you can give us is hitting subscribe and sharing this with someone who you think needs to hear it or someone that it will provide value to. That's how we continue to grow. And if you did that, I would really appreciate it. What so you figured out what was working on going viral? Yeah. What tools were you using back then to either edit the videos or how many hours a day were you putting in? Like what how were you doing it in the beginning?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

I would so okay, so in the beginning when I was in college, I was just using Capca, which was like the tool that TikTok came out with for editing. So I was literally editing it on my phone every day. And like I got so fast with it, it would take me like 20 minutes, 30 minutes, right, for each interview. Um, but Kapka was the main one, and then I think that's honestly it. Like, I'm a fan of more like instead of going to Chat GBT or like these AI platforms to look up ideas, I'm more of a fan of just Doom scrolling. Because as much as this sounds funny, like the best ideas come from when you just scroll. Because you when you're when you're scrolling, right? Like you're seeing not only your other competitors making content, but I feel like it just gets you more used to seeing what the trends are. And like I think that is why like I've made such good content, is because all I do is scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, right? And it's like I see, oh, this is trending right now. How can I take this trend and make it my own, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

That and then it just makes you think a little bit more creative because you're seeing everything, not just one Chat GPT saying like this is how you go viral.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because I think Chat GPT will give you like these these ideas, it'll give you stuff that's based off like data, but like the the real and also like you could have the best idea, but like if you don't have good execution, it's it's not gonna work. Like another example of this is like so. Do you know who Ryan Trahan is? I'm sure maybe your kid has seen it. It's like the the guy that traded a penny to a house. Maybe so.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

I'm I'm sure I've seen a video.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so basically, a little background is like this guy, like he he has like 20 million subscribers on YouTube, and he had a very viral series. It was called Trading a Penny to a House. Like he literally traded a penny to a house in 30 days, and with like no money, no nothing, just a penny. And the first time he posted, I think like a couple years ago before he posted the most recent one, it didn't get any views. And the reason why is because it was executed so poorly, right? But when he started incorporating like better storytelling, better thumbnails, everything, that video idea just skyrocketed.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, storytelling is storytelling is massive, huge thing. I've been I've been trying to learn everything I can because I wasn't just naturally good at it, but I know it's such a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Oh my gosh, it's like literally everything.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

That's how you, whenever I watch people, and even when I'm watching a video for a little while, I'm like, man, he's telling a couple good stories. Like I know I'm stuck on it, like watching it because the way they can relate whatever story is to the thing they're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

No, yeah, absolutely. And I think like once you get really good storytelling or once you build like a fan base, then you can kind of go off the rip and be like, hey, how's it going, guys? Sean here, right? Then it's like then they're gonna listen to you, you know. But like I think nowadays, unfortunately, like because of the whole like mystery bassification thing and everything, like you have to really get good at like telling a good story first, and then once they they're hooked, now when you have like 100,000, 200,000 followers, let's say, on one account, then you could start going off the rip of like, oh, your audience knows who you are, you could talk about random topics and then like it would do well still.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

If someone is starting out with zero followers, like what should they do first? I would say if I were like if I were to have a 30-day plan, like if they're because I think a lot of people that's why they struggle to make content, because they're like, I don't I mean, myself included, when I first gone, I was like, what do I make content about? I know a lot about real estate and a lot about this, but I didn't want to like pigeonhole myself into like he's the real estate guy or whatever. Um, but I still struggle with it. Like, what you know, what do I talk about? What do people want to listen to?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

I would say if you were to start from zero followers, the first thing you should do is okay, I should to make this as simple as possible. Like, I I I would basically ask myself the question of like, what am I making content for? And am I passionate about this thing where I'm okay not making money for like the next year? And I think the reason why I asked myself those two questions is because a lot of people, at least the people I've talked to, like whenever I were to ask them these questions, number one, they're like, I don't really know, I just see everyone else doing it, right? And number two, they're like, Oh, because of money. And I'm like, okay, well, that's valid, right? You can do it for money, but like you're not gonna get like the hormones you level why I feel like genuinely if you just do it for money, like you have to be passionate about what you're doing. Yeah. And so, like, once you're able to answer those two questions, so say, like, for example, like, uh, my passion was just like, I don't know, soccer, let's say, and then uh I want to make soccer content. I would just start looking then after I identify that through all like the soccer creators or people that are making viral content in the industry, and I would just literally not reinvent the video, just copy them, copy them and just at least maybe over time put a little bit of twist to your own, you know, way of making the video. Um, but the reason why I say copy them is because you just need to get like, especially with this is someone with zero experience, you just want to get used to making the viral content, like get used to understanding because you'd be surprised a lot of people don't even know what viral concepts are. And so they don't know the formats that are working. They're trying to do something else that's not working. And so I would recommend just copy them, right? Copy them. You do like 20, 30 videos of this in their exact style, whatever it is. Once you're getting a little bit of traction, right? You're getting a little bit more experience of like how to make the content. I would say now you can go ahead and branch out to making more of your own concepts that you've seen from the viral videos that you've made and kind of make them your own. And then from there you see like every month the data like, okay, these videos did well, or this topic did well, right? Like a lot of people would say, like, oh, the idea is whatever. No, I think the idea is like 90% of it. Like, if you don't have a good idea, like the the reality is people aren't just gonna watch it, right? Um, that's why the more niche, like the the harder it is as well, right? But the more niche, you know, like the riches are made in niches, right? Like you could make a lot more money because you're just targeting a specific audience. But I think if you're trying to get like million ours or whatever it is, you're gonna have to go more abroad. Yeah, you're gonna have to like kind of follow that point I was mentioning. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

I didn't I was I knew that I wasn't gonna make money for a while online. Like I didn't get on just to make money, right? But you know, to scale a personal brand, I saw I you know, my passion was I didn't want kids to end up where I was when I was 18. Like I graduated school and I learned nothing in school about life or business or anything. So it's like I started over when I was 18. I was like, you know what? It doesn't have to be that way. I was like, I could hopefully one day in the future, if I get online, I can disrupt traditional education somehow. I think it'll work itself out. But when I got online, that was like the ultimate goal. And I was like, I didn't need to make money day one, and so I've been learning along the way. And of course, now it's growing pretty quick, but you know, a year and a half later, um, where I think I probably didn't do is focus on like what videos were actually working because I wasn't good on camera, so it took me a while to even get good on camera. But I wasn't doing that, I wasn't focusing on like, okay, I'm gonna take somebody even close to being in the you know education space or whatever and just copy it. I didn't do that. And so it was like a lot of trial and error of just like doing it on my own and then figuring out some stuff went viral, some stuff didn't, why it did. Right, right, right. And so I guess I should have just copied somebody like initially to get like get traction and get better on camera.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, I would say that or I mean if you do have like a like an experience level of like understanding what like creative viral videos look like, I would say then you can try to do it on your own. Yeah, but like I didn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, I don't know what to make.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would just say, like, honestly, at that point, like you should just like look at the competitors and just copy them, which I don't think is a bad thing. I mean, people copy each other all the time, you know, and and it works still to this day.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Where I think the whole chat GPT thing goes is now that everyone's doing it, that like you can tell that people are using Chat GPT to actually do each framework of the video. Right. Um, and so it's like does that get overdone at some time and then everybody I don't know, because then like you said, it's like every single person's doing it out there. And does the algorithm change a little bit where people get used to that?

SPEAKER_01 29:22

I would say, yeah, like for the kind of like my glow up, glow down concept. Like, there was a time also when I was doing these interviews that like it started to die down. And like that's also a sign of like, okay, you need to do not just one concept, you need to like do three or five viral, three to four viral, right? And like kind of switch throughout them and like you know, recycle them over and over. Um, just like tweaking it a little bit. I'll give you an example. Like, even for clipping, right? A lot of people they'll do the reason why you'll see multiple people posting the same clip is because the algorithm, as long as you change the video like a tiny bit, it will do better or it could do worse, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Depending on what you're saying, we learned that too from getting all the analytics back. If we have one viral video, kind of remix it a little bit. It might have the first three seconds, but like kind of change up the editing, change up some things.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

You change the editing the intro, the text hook on the screen, even like the color of the video. Like, I've for like when I did the ice show speed video, like there was like the original video got like 50,000 views. Um, that was like the raw video, and then I edited a little bit, now I'm got like 130,000. Then like the next one I did more of like a different intro, it got like a million, right? And so it shows you like what the first three seconds or whatever it is, is like yeah, I literally just took out the intro and replaced it, and it was the exact same font, everything, except the only thing with different was just the intro. And the intro, it just got me a million views, which is kind of it's kind of ironic. Like, yeah, and I did it again with a different intro, it got like 70,000, 100,000 views.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah, we're about to, we've taken some of my older stuff that's gone viral, and we're gonna try to actually remake the video, whether it's with my son or whatever we were doing, like just remake the whole thing, but like try to get a little bit more numbers, try to get a different reaction and like try it that way because we've already remixed it a couple, you know, like a handful of times. So we're gonna actually go back and try to like re-record some of that stuff with the same format, the same like opening, uh, but then try to get a little bit different result in the video and see if it goes viral like that.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, no, I think that's why it works. I mean, a lot of time people just take viral concepts, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

I'll lose. Well, that's why reaction videos did so good for a while, right? Because you're just taking a viral video and then changing it the end a little bit. So the the part that made it go viral is already there. Literally, and then you're like just changing it up a little bit. 100%, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. So how long, how many years in did you actually felt like you understood the algorithms and um you understood how you can make a video go viral? How long did it take?

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Definitely I would say like, yeah, probably a year at least. I mean, I mean, to this day I'm still learning, you know, because the algorithm is constantly changing. Like what worked back then, like two years ago, doesn't work as much now, you know. Like back then you could get away with like, here's how to this, or like top five, you know, stop wasting your, you know, like those kind of hooks. But like now, it's like you gotta tell a story more instead of just going into that, right? So it's like I'm still learning to this day. I mean, I would say like though, like when I really got more of an understanding was like probably after a year. Because then it's like, okay, I post like a couple hundred videos now, like I understand like, you know, what did well, what didn't do well. Um, but that was just in my niche, you know, keep in mind. It wasn't like, oh, I knew like everything. Because sure just because you're good at one niche doesn't mean you'll be good in like every other niche, right? But I think one that's why I kind of say like an encouragement instead of just going to like Chat GBT or whatever, go to like an AI or something like AI, go to like a just TikTok and Instagram and Doom Scroll and like look at the videos. Cause like, believe it or not, that's what's really gonna help.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

And then do you search in your own niche and like search that and then Doom Scroll, like what you're actually doing.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Sometimes I do that. Sometimes, like if it was like for a client, I would, but sometimes if it's just for myself, I'll just scroll through the explore page and see kind of what comes up. Um, just because like it shows you what's the most relevant. I guess.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

You could always make it your own niche, anyways. Like if you do get that viral concept. So break down a viral video step by step. Like, what's the the hook, the story, the CTA editing, like what happens first? Like, what do you want to do in like the first five to ten seconds? And I guess it's changing. So so today, like what what's working for you?

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah, I would say, okay, so I mean, obviously you've probably heard this a million million times. The hook, right? The hook is the first thing that's the most important. Um, there's three things to the hook that I look for. So the first one is the uh visual hook. So what you show on the screen is very important. Matter of fact, what you show on the screen could be the make or break of the whole video. Like if you show, like even like lighting-wise, if you have bad lighting, it's gonna just decrease the chances, right? So number one is the visual, right? Bright colors, you know, vibrant colors, whatever it is. Number two is um verbal hook, what you're actually saying in the video, right? Or I guess it could be verbal hook or a text hook, which is the last one, which is what's being actually set, like shown on the screen in text format, right? So, like B or videos could be like a text, right? Uh, if it's a verbal hook, you know, it could start off with something that like was let's say in a podcast and big conversation that was controversial or whatever it was drives curiosity. Those are the three main things. Once I have those three main things down, then I ask myself, okay, how relatable is this that I like what what I'm showing or saying? Um, because a lot of people watch off relatability and they will watch off of like, you know, if they're curious or not. And I always try to go for like I call it like a one-to-one ratio. So you should try to aim to get the same amount of likes as you did for the same amount of saves or shares. And if you see a viral concept that has similar likes to shares to saves, that's how you know like it was a good video. Like, for example, I'd rather take that versus like a million view video with like not as much, like maybe 10,000, let's say even 10, 50,000 likes and like 200 shares. I just feel like the one-to-one is a lot more powerful.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah, especially if you're business owners, you know, like well, especially if somebody's sharing it with somebody, they send it to somebody for a reason. Yeah, because maybe they didn't relate to it right off, but they know that person well. And so, like, hey, check this out, hey, check it this out. Like, people do that to me. They're like, they send me stuff about traditional school and like all this stuff that they know that I both like kind of believe in, and like, so they'll send me videos, and so like so it's relevant to me.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah, exactly exactly. I think that's why like that ratio is so important to me of like understanding, okay, like the only reason why they got this is because like you know, the hook um was relevant or whatever it was, but more importantly, like instead of just a hook, like then I go into like the body of like the whole video itself. Um, and like there's a lot of different ways you can go about that. Like, if you're, for example, doing an educational topic, let's say like this was at least was working back in the day. I don't know about like now as much, but you know, like if you're more of a let's say brand new entrepreneur on social media, you had experience, you're successful, you have a hook, let's say you say in the first three, five seconds, and then after that, then I would go into either like a you know, get straight to the value, or just you have like a line of credibility. And the line of credibility is like something where it's like instead of uh if like you said let's say you have a hook of like here's how I got a billion views, let's say, right? Uh and then the second line is and if you're questioning me, well, I was able to do this on multiple different accounts, this one, this one, this one. So just stick for the next 60 seconds if you want to know the answer, right? And then you just go into like the pain point, the problem. Most people will tell you that you need to have the best hook, you need to have the best script, but that's BS. What you actually need to do is have this three-step simple formula that I'm gonna break down for you. Uh, and then the reason why I said three-step is because you want to make it easy to follow along as well. If you make it harder to follow along, oh, another thing is like a lot of business owners, they're like the smartest guys in the world or smartest girls, but it doesn't translate to social media, doesn't I? They make it so complicated with all these terms that it's like, holy crap, I can't even understand what you're saying. It's like a different language, you know?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah, same as me. Like, I I it took me a long time to just figure out what works and what doesn't work, but I'm like looking at it from like a business lens and it's just not the same.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, that's why I that's that's why I like doing the the kids' ideas, like those are be good because it's like you kind of have to talk simple terms for them, but like that's what just does well. Like, and that's what I always ask people, like I tell people like if like your grandma can't understand this, it's probably not the most simple then, you know. So, like you definitely want to make sure it's very simple because the reason why I also it's not like because you're trying to like sound dumb, it's it's more like because this the average social media user is scrolling probably for like an hour, let's say, right? And so it's like throughout their scroll, like you're like one of like a hundred videos probably that they go to.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

I mean, or more, yes, or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

So it's like you're not gonna remember that video fully, right? Especially if you like it's like kind of like if you're like a Shark Tank judge and you have like a hundred different pitches, right? And someone makes it complicated one pitch, and you're just gonna be like, I'm out. Like I don't even want I don't even want to it's just like sounds bad.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah, no, no, no, that's a good analogy.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yeah, so it's like that's why like you gotta make it simple, and like that's why like three steps simple, whatever, or it could just be like you have one concept. I always say, okay, so you have one concept, you have one example for, and then you have one call to action or template that they can use from that example. Um, so if I'm describing, let's say, like how to make a viral hook, right? That's the concept. The example would be like, here's a viral hook example, right? I would say the hook, right? And then I would use a template in that video for people to either comment a call to action or comment like a word for to get, or they could just save the video to copy and paste it later. Um, so like one of my most like viral videos on my business account, I did a video, it was like, um, here's how to network with uh like billionaires, let's say, right? And pretty much in the video, rather than like describing it, I would just say it in the video, like as a B-roll format, copy and paste my schedule here, put this prompt into Jad GBT with a picture of the prompt, right? And it made it so easy where it's like there was like 8,000 likes on it, but it got 8,100 saves because it was so easy and clear to understand that it's not like somebody had to go type in this prompt or like you know go to a different site or whatever it was. No, it was like you literally just say the video, you can screenshot it, and it's all there for you. And that's why like I think it did so well.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

I see people speeding that up a little bit now, if it's like about that, and so you have to save it almost, like, or you watch it a bunch of times because they like almost purposely either speed it up or talk a little bit faster, where you have to watch it like three or four times, or you have to save it, and it's like specific stuff like that. Hey, copy this prompt in chat GPT. This is exactly how it did this, and it's like, but they're talking so fast, you're like having to like re-watch it a hundred times, yeah. No, or or save it, right? Yeah, I'm gonna go look at it later.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

I don't have time to like yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, that's why like whenever I try to make an educational video, like I try to always think of how can I get people to save this? Um, sometimes the reaction videos it doesn't get many saves, just because like um I would say if anything gets more shares, but like yeah, usually the reaction videos from what I've seen do well, like it gets a lot more shares. But if you're breaking down a concept, like you'll probably get more saves. It kind of just depends on what your your purpose is. If you get both, then you've hit the jackpot. Like that's gold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Yeah. Do you think you need to have both types of videos, even if you're like if you're trying to monetize on social media and you know, I I keep going back to the roofer, but just like a traditional business. Do you suggest just like, you know, one video being value, one video being trying to get viral, um, or just like one video just like pure educational, you know, in their niche? Like how how should they structure it as a business owner? Because I know that, you know, even for me as a business owner, like you don't really know what to do. It's like you, you know, you hear all this different stuff on social media. Should I be making content only about my subject? Or, you know, what should I be making? Like, if they post three videos a day on each platform, like what should be the ratio?

SPEAKER_01 40:21

I think, okay, so this is a good question because it depends, I think, on your niche. What I mean by that is like if you're a rear roofer, right? Like I feel like it's a lot smaller, like the TAM versus like a just hormosy-level business owner, right? And so it's advice advice, right? Yeah. And so it's like, I think like if you're like more niche, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

What if they're selling a product or a service that's kind of specific to a certain uh industry?

SPEAKER_01 40:47

What I would do is this. I would actually, if let's say I was a roofer, I would actually make it where on Instagram, I just do mainly like top-of-the-funnel videos, like videos just about like the business or stuff I buy, my story, my life. And then I'd have it where people go to my YouTube long form to learn more about like those in-depth topics about like roofing and stuff like that, let's say a product or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Because people are on there to learn more. Yeah, they're gonna watch a whole video if they need a roof, right? It's like, oh yeah, exactly. Try to not make any mistakes. I want to see everything. They're not gonna watch a bunch of 20 second clips.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Yeah, and people trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah, exactly. Right. And that's why like I would like frame it like that. But if you're like someone that's in a more broader niche with like a bigger TAM, then I would say, okay, like you could just make content maybe half and half more about the education side of it or 70%, 30%, right? And then 30% of it is about your life. It kind of just depends on what niche you're in.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

What about a realtor? Realtor? Like, because I mean, there you you see them, like I see I I know a ton of them um being from the real estate industry, and you see them either you know posting a walkthrough of a house, but you know, I've had them ask me too. It's like, man, I don't really know what to post. Like, what like what should they do? Because it it truly is you're selling yourself. It's a personal brand, right? If somebody hires you to be the realtor, but it's also experience and like showing some value. So, what what should they do? What should a realtor do?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

I would say for a realtor, okay, because the thing with at least like the realtors, I I like knew like the thing is like people have to come to your like listing usually, right? So it's like for these people, I would just try to make a lot of top-of-the-funnel videos. Like, you can make it where it's like you do like even like a skit, like something entertaining. Okay. And then like some of the videos are more of like the breakdown of like the walkthrough of the houses and properties. It also depends on your personality, right? Like, I think for me, like I'm more of an outgoing guy, so I can make it funny the walkthroughs, but like someone let's say that's like more like serious and like older, let's say, might not be the best at doing that. So they might have to rely on more like trending viral videos of like what other realtors are doing. And then I would say with that, like kind of like you know, Ryan Sarant, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like that guy, like does it. I I don't know, I've never seen like his content fully, but like I know like that guy's more of like an influencer, you know. I feel like like influencer realtor guy. Definitely, yeah. And so it's like because of that, like, but even though like maybe his content's not all about real estate sometimes, he's still probably getting a lot of inquiries, you know, on a like a good amount of basis, right? So it's like I would say, like, if you're a realtor, you should try to make content more about like yeah, trending topics, just stuff about maybe your life even, somehow tie back into real estate, um, and then also have like content about just like real estate itself. And I think kind of like what I was saying earlier, like people were literally working with me because they just liked me. Like, that's kind of where that com that content comes in. Like, trust trust and trust and trust and like ability, like ability, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

That makes sense. Because I do feel that every business owner, this is what they struggle with, right? Yeah. I had a I I interviewed a a really good like tax cons. She has a tax strategist and consultant business. Um she does the compliance part, but she also like a tax strategist. But she tells me she's like, I just don't I don't know what to make, and she's extremely smart and knows everything about the industry and is and is good a very good communicator and can communicate like every like I've asked her all the tax questions that I've learned over the last and she knew everything. But she still tells me she likes struggles to make content on like what should I make it about? How much should I make it about tax stuff? How much should I make it about myself? Like it was a lot of that stuff came up.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Right. Yeah. I would yeah. I mean, I would just say, like, if it's like a wait, so you mean like the tax person or yeah, just somebody do your taxes.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Ultimately, that's what she was. Like she had a firm that does people's taxes. Right. She was also a strategist because she said a lot of people just do compliance and they don't help you prepare for the end of the year. It's like, hey, we're gonna work on this throughout the year so we can save you money, not just do your taxes at the end of the year. So that was her, that's like her whole business model. Oh, I see, I see.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Do you actually there's a guy named Carlton Dennis. Yeah, yeah. She knows them.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

No, we talked about that.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Oh, I see. Okay, then yeah, I was yeah, I think it just it's about a time. Like you just have to post so much that, like, yeah, it kind of just depends on your goal. Like, if you want to be like a big, big person, like you definitely need to like do more top-of-the-funnel stuff. But if you're trying to just stay within a niche and just monetize off that, yeah, you could for sure do this, like do only tax content, only real estate content for like years, and it would probably work out for you.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Do you think you get more clients by only doing that or like more paying customers, or do you think you always have to have both? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

I feel like I'm gonna say the higher influence, just because like, I mean, look at Hermosy, right? Like that guy made a hundred million dollars in a week, and that's crazy. Like that wasn't from like him sticking to the niche, like that's from him going like broad and like hitting everybody, I feel like, and like that's why like he has such a good audience and like people see him as the authority, right? Because like he took that long to build it up, like in the beginning, it was just about like a very in-depth, like you know, more niche concepts, but like I think over time he started going more broad, and like yeah, that's when it just started hitting.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Yeah, I agree. What should somebody do so that if they've started doing content, they get to five or ten thousand followers? Should they keep that same strategy, just keep the viral strategy? How do they get to a hundred? How do they get to two hundred? Like, what's the next step? Do you change anything after you get to like a little bit of traction or do you just keep it the same?

SPEAKER_01 46:03

I would say so. Once you start going like more viral, it it kind of depends like on the analytics. So, like for me, like every post I usually try to look at like okay, what was the analytics? Like, what went wrong, went right?

SPEAKER_00 46:15

So, for so for me, yeah, I think we're up to I don't know, 250,000 followers, kind of just across the platforms. And we do have viral videos, probably I don't know, once a week now, maybe Brian? Maybe once every yeah, maybe once a week at least to where it goes pretty viral, where it's over a million views. But do we just focus on more viral content, or what do I do now to get to like from 250 to a million? Like, what do I need to do? Like, what analytics do we look at to try and like get the right audience, number one, but then really like try to scale from 250 to I mean we're posting enough. We have enough, I know we're posting enough volume, right? So I don't know if it's like needs to be more valuable, it needs to be more like you said, just like more viral videos. Like I don't know where to go. Like what will get there?

SPEAKER_01 47:03

What will get us there faster? Okay, so this is what I would do. So all the videos that got a million views, I would literally recreate them, but with a different twist. Okay. And I would just keep rinsing them and repeating them until it just dies. Okay. Yeah, it's an easy way to just get more traction and more viewers and followers. And or the other way is you try to think of a concept like kind of telling you last night at dinner of like something that has nobody's ever done, like a purple cow, and like that could really get you to the next level.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah, I like that one too, anyways, just because again, that's like where I wanted to go with the content. So it really fits into what I want to do and my passion. So that's easy. We'll we'll do that. Yeah, but so outside of that, just keep remixing the videos, keep trying to remake them, trying to make them just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah, like I would I would literally take your kid and just like have them in every video.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Like at that point, like I think like your kid is like literally generating views, like yeah, and he does he does he does he does well, and a lot of it is because maybe you don't normally see a kid like someone teaching a kid about this stuff, like profit, revenue, asset, liability, target market. Like he knows all the topics you like, all the terms you know, yeah, and he knows the definition, and we're he's learning how to use them as we go. So those do well in I'm already doing it anyways. Like I'm already I like I teach him this stuff regardless, right? Right. So those do good, but I guess as far as like creating value, I guess my mind is always going back to like how do I create more value? I'm not creating enough value, maybe for the person that's like watching it. That's where I always struggle. I think that's where my like mind, the roadblock is. It's like maybe I'm not like giving enough value. This isn't a good a good video that would like provide value where somebody like really likes a brand. They're not just like seeing some barrel clip or something like that. Yeah, I think the like the brand part of it.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Yeah, the value part is definitely important for sure. I think like that comes with just like kind of making it simple to understand and like you know, also having a good call to action in there. Um, but you know, everything takes time. Like, you know, it's not like Hormosy overnight just got a million whatever followers, right? Like he gave so much content, like hours and hours and hours. Like you can even do like one YouTube long form um and like chop it up into clips for your short form page as well, like that are value-based. I know a lot of like big people do that, like Hermosy does that, like Cody Sanchez, like they'll take up the YouTube videos and just like clip it up where it's like each clip starts with its own hook that's in the YouTube video itself, and I think that like also just helps them get more traction on YouTube and get some traction on their Instagram and TikTok and their whatever it is. Yeah, um, but yeah, I would just say if you want to grow from like the 250 to like a million follower range, then like number one, it's either just double downing on like concepts that already went viral, or number two, thinking of a content that's totally different than no one's ever done, which is a lot harder, but it's a lot more rewarding at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

So you would want to do both. So we're already doing the I mean we're already got good viral content, we just need to keep remixing those. Right. And then I think we're you know, us testing so much, we do find more formats that that work pretty well. So I you know, I liked your idea about the about the kids thing for sure. Oh yeah, for sure. And I tried to work and I tried to do it a little like our first one, which it was similar, but more of like interview style and a you know, with a with a father and uh a son, unless more like we were talking about about like helping them build something.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

That was that was a different concept.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yeah, for sure. I think you're right. Yeah, that's super unique. I've never if you do that, I promise you it's gonna do well. Okay, yeah. Well, we'll see, because I'm done I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

When did you like when you got to a certain amount of followers, what made you want to start the social media agency helping people grow? Like at what point did you do it? Was it a year in, two years in?

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Okay, so this is a great question. So the only reason why I started my marketing agency was I remember when I was making content, I think I was a sophomore in in college, um, I had this one video idea and it had to do with crypto. And basically at the time it was like I needed a Bitcoin for this video. And I had a friend that was like this Bitcoin millionaire, and pretty much I don't even know if a million or billionaire was so he's rich basically. Um and I asked him, hey, can I borrow Bitcoin for the video? And he was like super cool with it. He was like, Yeah, of course. And I remember the next day I wanted to get a new phone, and I think you probably know where this is going. I when I got the new phone, erased all my data from the old phone. And I remembered in that moment, like everything was still there. I transferred everything over. But what I didn't know is you get logged out of everything. And I forgot to save the seed phrase or the the password to the crypto wallet, and I basically lost that bitcoin. And in that moment, I was like, Oh wow, like I'm a s I'm now$70,000,$70,000 gone and down or in debt. And pretty much you know, I was thinking, like, what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Because he just let you borrow it.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Yeah, and I'm like, well, and I called him, I was like, dude, you're gonna hate me, but like I lost the Bitcoin. And he was like, Well, you're gonna have to figure it out somehow to get it back for me. And I remember in that moment, this is also funny, ironically, when also my ex-girlfriend broke up with me at the same time, and I was like, really like, damn, like this is not working out. Like, I had like a lot of followers, a lot of views, no money now, and well, no girlfriend, but like, you know, it was funny to me. Life was falling apart. Life was falling apart, you know. And I was like, all right, like what do I gotta do to fix this, right? And so I think rather than just sitting down and doing nothing, me having like a stronger mindset back then, I was like, I'm gonna just figure this out and I'm gonna get it done. And so I started like going through all these side hustles and doing everything, nothing was really working for me. And that's also when I was also trying to figure out if it's drop shipping, trading, whatever it was. And then I one day came across like the agency model, except I did influencer marketing at first, and that didn't do well. Like that like trying to do a brand deal or trying to get like these brands influencers because I used a lot of influencers. That was a flop, honestly. It was not good. Um, so I just quit that.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Is anybody still successful at that? Because I guess you can be, but if you pedal like a bunch of different stuff, it like dilutes a brand. I guess you could be successful with like one or two brands, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say, like, yeah, that definitely like I don't know if there's well, there's some influencer marketing managements, I think, that are doing fine. But that was from like way back then. But pretty much, yeah, at least when I tried it, it didn't do well. Um, so then I I quit actually. I quit the whole agency and I was still keeping in mind, in depth, I didn't have nothing. And I was like, okay, like I gotta think of something fast because otherwise I'm gonna be screwed, right? Like, who knows? This guy might call this Taiwan Mafia boss or whatever, just freaking fuck me up, right? So, like, I was like, I gotta do something fast. So that's when one day I remember though, like I had a friend of mine that I met from the program that I invested into at the time for agencies. He called me up and he's like, Hey, I have a friend of mine that's like very successful, like yourself, and you know, he wants you to do social media or he wants you to tell him social media justin. And I was at the time like thinking, okay, like sure, I can go over there and like drive an hour down, you know, just go see him. So I went to go see this guy. He would ask me a lot of questions, and pretty much it came to the point where at the end of the conversation, he was like, Hey, why don't I just hire you? And I was like, Okay, like how would that work? Like, I've never been hired for anything. Um, and I remember at the time, like, this was a lot of money to me. I was like, he was he was like, How much? And I was like, 3k a month. He was like, Okay, done. So now that was the first time in my life I was like, okay, this is like some money I'm making now, right? So I was super hyped. Still not what$67,000?$67,000 gone. Like a long way to go. Yeah, long way to go. But I'm like, hey, it's a start, right? So I started doing it for him, and I got him a million followers in six months.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

And for the guy.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

For the guy.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Which is hard to do in the business world. Yeah, it's it's it's harder to do in the business world than just the entertainment. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

And so that's when I was like, I can really do this. Like, I was like, wow, like I can actually do this. And so I did it again for another guy. I think I got him a couple hundred thousand followers, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna make this a business. So I started making this a business, and like I had a ton of referrals come in. That's when I started that Instagram page to get a ton of lead flow and everything. And like ever since then, like, yeah, life has been great. Like that, I think that failure, that moment of mistake, like is what really prompted me to get back on my feet and keep going. Yeah, you had to do something.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Yeah, 100%. What do you do now? Like, what's the whole funnel? Is it is it just through Instagram? Like, where are you getting all the leads?

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Yeah, so it's from Instagram. Yeah, pretty much just that page I that was showing you. Uh it's it's that page primarily. And then I'm trying to, I was gonna try to do YouTube long form, uh, but that's something I haven't really touched yet, to be honest with you. It just has been short form for the most part.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Yeah, I've heard from other people that monetize big brands on social media that the YouTube long form client is like one of the best ones, or the follower is one of the best ones that have. Yeah. Because they're like so bought in and like the intention is so much different. Oh, a hundred years. I'm literally trying to like fix my problem. So I'm gonna sit here for an hour and like watch Justin's like whole video on how to grow. Yeah. And then it by the end of the video, you're just like, I just need to hire this guy. Like, this is too much work. No, literally. Especially as a especially as a business owner, like you're busy running your business. And so you just want to have somebody like just tell me what to do, tell me what I need to do, and I'll do it. And so a lot of people don't have time, so it's like, oh yeah, it's like they'll just pay for somebody to do it.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Yeah, that's that I think that's why this mentorship is so is so valuable.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Also, I think so too. Like a lot of people are like, Oh, all these online courses are like a lot of them are really good. Like the people that like yourself and just whatever you're trying to learn, if somebody's already figured it out, it'll save you from burning so much money on like trying to figure it out on your own money and time. Yeah, like if you can just shortcut your way, that's how I always look at it. It's like, can I pay to like shortcut my way to learning something faster? And so we've been trying to learn as much as we can on the online. Did you have like a mentor that you you paid before or like social media or in life?

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Or actually in life, or like who was like the greatest mentor you ever had?

SPEAKER_00 56:31

I don't so that was my biggest problem when I was younger. I was from a small town. This is before social media, before the internet. There was no rich people, no anybody that was like doing anything outside of like working in the chemical plant or whatever it was at the time. Like nobody, I I couldn't even ask anybody. So I didn't have that. I I think my first true mentor was my first business partner. He's somebody I looked up to. I worked for him for a while, and then I tried to leave. I bought into half the business. And like he taught me a lot of things, but he was very like, he never wanted a huge business, he never wanted all the stress, he never wanted anything. So that was like the limitation with that. But he taught me like a lot of core things about business. But after that, I've never I've never really had one. I just I try to find people that have done what I'm trying to do now and just like pay to shortcut my way, is like how I kind of look at it. So I guess you could say I have a lot of different mentors now. And um, you know, I have some good friends that are I I consider mentors too now, but I think it's super valuable. Like I that's what I was missing when I was 18. Like I could have shortcutted my way and saved myself a lot of struggle and heartache for sure, and just loss of money, loss of time. Could have been there a lot faster.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

I see.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

I mean that well, that's good. At least you had that business partner.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

So how do you convert the client off of Instagram?

SPEAKER_01 57:50

So I usually have like a, yeah, I guess like the funnel, like how's the funnel work? So it's pretty much right now, it's just like a it was like either from an Instagram story or like one of the posts, like from many chat, and then they know they comment a keyword. Usually the most popular ones were like a lead magnet they get, you know, lead magnet, give them it, don't ask me anything in return, and I hit them up in the DMs later as saying, hey, how's it going with your brand? Some of them would not respond, some of them would respond, and some of them might ghost, obviously. Of course, yeah. Yeah, but like I think that's kind of like my funnel or like the process of how I did it. Very simple Instagram DM funnel. Did you have people go straight to checkout or did you have a sales team or did you get the sales call? Yeah, yeah. Because mine was more like higher ticket, so it's like, yeah, checkout probably wouldn't be the best. How much was the ticket? It was anywhere from like 8,000 to 15,000. Okay. Um, and so like I would typically have like where they book on a meeting or calendar, and then like we get on they get on a call with it, could be myself or a sales rep. And then pretty much, yeah, from there it would be like the whole onboarding process and everything.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

How much were you paying your salespeople? What's part of the what's like what part of the 10 to 15,000 were you paying for it? Or what percentage?

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Yeah, I think it was like the standard, like 10% for the sales. That's what I've heard too. Yeah, and then the setters are like five percent.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Okay. Yeah, so pretty just standard.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

So now, fast forward to today, what does a week look like with you today? Like how much content are you putting out? What are you doing? Are you trying to grow that business?

SPEAKER_01 59:08

So I think recently I like kind of was what I was mentioning last time, is like I've been trying to focus more on my like just personal brand, like myself, not really focusing on the business as much. Just because like long term, yeah, I might make less money now, but like long term, I know like it'll all come back to me because yeah, it'll be a different business. It'll be it's kind of like i show speed, like that guy's making millions, like millions, right? And it's like, of course, like not everybody's built to do that, right? But it's like for me at least, like I definitely believe I have the potential and capability of like achieving that one day because obviously, like I've done it already on like a my own channel. Um not 50 million followers, but like you know, I can definitely achieve that. It's just a matter of like time, dedication, and effort. And so that's why I'm trying to go all in on like YouTube long form for my channel, my Instagram, everything. So, how many hours a week are you spending now? Probably, I mean, I don't know about like hours per week, but like I know like me posting five, six videos a day, like just from my own page on every platform, yeah. On every platform, like I make five, six videos, and then I just like post it across post across everything. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but like it takes me like a couple hours for sure. And also just like looking and researching for video ideas takes me another couple hours or so. It's not just the content itself, it's like a lot of other yeah, and then especially like recording on a YouTube video, that takes a long time as well. So, like overall, like probably at least like 30 hours or something like that. I mean, I I don't know exactly the number. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

I was just curious of like so people can understand like how much your time is. Oh, yeah, yeah. But like your full-time, it's like a full-time thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Yeah, like content is like not something that's like you could just like do once a day and like I feel like get to well, you could, but like I feel like quantity is super important. I feel like that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

Well, I've learned that also. It's like you can't just make a video or two and post it every once in a while, yeah, and think it's gonna do good, especially now with like the amount of content that's out there, and people have so many choices, it's like hard harder and harder to get their attention. 100%, yeah. Hey everyone, real quick, I just want to let you know this podcast is 100% independent. No ads, no sponsors, just real. If you're finding value in whatever we're doing here, the biggest help that you can give us is hitting subscribe and sharing this with someone who you think needs to hear it or someone that it will provide value to. That's how we continue to grow. And if you did that, I would really appreciate it. Can you think of anything else? If somebody's listening to this today, can you think of anything else that we didn't cover today that would help them like grow their following or um make more viral content? Is there anything you think we left out or didn't cover?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Um Okay, I think one thing I could touch on a little bit. So, like a lot of people like when they say like you can grow on social media by like not reinventing the wheel, I think that is true, but I think I also think it's not true. Because the reason why I say that is all the biggest creators you notice this day, they did something that was different. Like they made their own unique type of like trait or characteristic that separated them from the rest of the competition. And like you can you can get to like a million followers without reinventing the wheel, but I think if you want to get to 10 million, you gotta reinvent the wheel somehow. Like you definitely need to think of an idea that is way different and like find a unique angle because it's all about like story and it's all about kind of like what movement you create, you know. If you're able to create some sort of movement, like you're like the entrepreneurial guy that's like helped change thousands of families' lives, teenagers' lives through just like understanding business without going to school. Like you start that movement, you have a really cool like following, and you're gonna definitely get to the top.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

Yeah, it's like building community at the same time. 100%. Yeah. What about I so I've always thought, like wondered about this. I know it probably helps, but what about the way somebody looks? Like, as far as like just purple hair or you know, uh crazy color shirt every time, or Alex with the nose strips, and like just different personal branding aspects that like you recognize no matter what you see on camera. How important do you think that is? Like of coming up with like a certain look that no matter what somebody's scrolling, like they're like, Oh shit, like I know, like I recognize that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

That's actually kind of why I shaved my head off. Just because like I was thinking, okay, maybe like a bald Asian guy that does like IRL like content, like crazy stuff, like could be a little bit more eye-catching than just like a guy with regular hair. But I think also at the same time, like the look isn't like entirely everything. I think like that's like something that's very like just unique about yourself and that's natural. Like, I think Hermosy is just naturally like a big guy. I don't know if you've ever met the guy in person, but like um did it so actually did somebody ever tell you you kind of look like Chris Williamson a little bit? I I kind of see it naturally.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I think that like a couple times, and there was somebody else that people told me it look like. But if you think about it, I'm like average white guy. So it's like, yeah, if you're scrolling, it just looks like everybody else. Like, how do you I do I do I want to stand out? Do I want to wear a certain color shirt? Do I want to wear you know, it's like you could that that definitely could help.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Um, kind of like Wes Watson, that guy, like he's just so big and muscular and tattoos on his face. It's like, okay, you're kind of gonna be like, Who the heck is this guy? Uh but I had to say all like the transgender people and everything I've interviewed, like they always get the most attention because it's like they look kind of like different. So it's like, well, I'm not doing that shit. No, no, no, I know, yeah. But like for you, like you could have a certain look or sure, whatever it is. I know what you're saying. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

It's like some at least some unique, whether it's article of clothing or something, or at least like, oh, I rec I'll like I've seen that guy's video on YouTube, I've seen that guy's video here. Yeah, I've I've kind of been contemplating on that. It's like, what do what can I do where I don't look like an average white guy? No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

I it also comes on to your messages. You could have a signature like tagline. Yeah, so like there's this restaurant I used to have worked with. Um and pretty much for them, I gave them like this tagline of like Asanebo style. And like it was like this Japanese sushi restaurant. The chef would say like asanebo style for every video. Okay. What is it? It was basically so the restaurant's called Asanebo, but like I was like, Oh, let's make it Asanebo style. And so like that actually became so popular. LA Times wrote about it and they put Asanebo style changing the way, like, and it was it's it's actually still to this day on LA Times, but like it's pretty cool. Yeah, so we didn't change his look, but we changed his like the message. Because you know, it's funny, he doesn't really speak English, and so I was like, Okay, well, what's something he can at least say? And I'm like, oh like Asinable style, and that's literally how it came about. So you could have a signature tagline, you could have like a look, signature look. That will come through time, I think. Okay, yeah, that will come through time. Yeah, I kind of think so too. Like it'll I'll figure something out or it'll work itself out.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Yeah, personality is super important, though. All right, appreciate it, Justin. Ton of good value for somebody that wants to scale in social media. I know a ton of business owners personally that this is the biggest thing they struggle with. It's like they're really good at business, but they don't understand social media. And me included, like I'm I'm learning along the way. Yeah. So definitely a ton of value. W if somebody wants to uh follow you even more to learn a little bit more where they follow you at.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Yeah. So my business account is called Real Justin Ho and then my uh main Instagram is the mindset guy. Okay. Yeah, with two eyes. So Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. All right.